5/20/2008

6 year old eats twin?

Perhaps Krazy Kristy Burton would be interested in fighting for the rights of these "unborn".

Basicaly, a six year old was suffering stomach pains which appeared to be a tumor and turned out to be an embryo (what the religously motivated anti-abortion forces would call a "person"). Apparently, cases where one of a set of twins absorbs the other in the womb occur in one of 500,000 live births.

I found another incident from 2005 which occured in Bangladesh. Doctors removed a fetus from the abdomen of a 16 year-old by the name of Abu Raihan. Apparently the fetus grew like a tumor (weighing almost 5 pounds) and would have become the boy’s twin if it had developed normally.

Then there is the Vanishing Twin Syndrome in which one of a set of a twins disappears in the uterus during pregnancy. This is far more common than the above, occuring in 21-30% of multifetal pregnancies. That is so bizarre.

9 comments:

LilBitBrat said...

so with the vanishing twin syndrome...would it be safe to say we would need to issue a missing persons report? perhaps an amber alert? "ma'am...do you happen to have any sex offenders registered near your uterus?" "i hear that colon of yours is a reall ass-hole, maybe we should investigate him"

Rose said...

Recently, in San Francisco, an unborn child was partially removed from the womb in order to have a renal tract obstruction repaired. After the surgery, the child was replaced in the womb to continue the pregnancy. Was this a person while out of the womb and then a non-person again when back inside? Or, since the procedure involves the removal of the lower half of the body from the womb, did the child achieve personhood for its buttocks but not for its brain?

MellanKelly said...

The colon is utterly misunderstood - a simple probe would prove this statement to be true.

MellanKelly said...

Rose~
What point were you attempting to make with your reference to fetal surgery? Personally, I think it is fantastic that doctors can and do help women with their pregnancies in whatever capacity that they can. Are you not aware that when those vehemently opposed to abortion use adjectives or qualifiers (like "unborn" or "preborn") in order to describe the zygote, the embryo and/or the fetus it certainly does not change what it is? I mean, a fetus is a fetus is a fetus. Further, the doctors who perform these surgeries refer to the fetus as a fetus precisely because that is what it is. Nothing you've said alters the fact that there is no baby and/or child until birth.

Rose said...

Yes Mellankelly, I agree that it's great that doctors can help women with their pregnancies. I was asking this question because some pro-choicers believe that a fetus doesn't become a person until it's outside the womb. However, this doesn't make sense, considering, as in this example, some fetuses are taken out of the womb and then put back in.

MellanKelly said...

Rose~
So when you make the statement that some pro-choicers do not believe that the fertilized egg is a person until birth are you, in essence, making the statement that you know when a fertilized egg becomes a person? If that is the case then you must know that there are philosophers, scientists, theologists and clergy who would be just dying to meet with you to discuss your facts (considering that none of these groups of people have reached a consensus on the essential attributes of "personhood"). I'm sure that they would be most curious about how it is that you, Rose, have been able to do what they cannot.

Your attempt to argue that because fetal surgery has occurred outside of the uterus that fetal personhood is established is a logical fallacy. You have committed post hoc, ergo propter hoc. The fetus that exits the uterus upon a live birth (thus becoming a child/person) is certainly not the same as a fetus that is removed from the uterus for a short period of time for the specific purpose of corrective surgery (and remains a fetus before, during and after said surgery).

Perhaps you are not familiar with the act of childbirth (the delivery of one or more infants from a woman's uterus). Or maybe it's that you are confused by the differences between surgery that is performed on a fetus and surgery that is performed on a child/baby. I would suggest you study up on the vast differences between giving birth to a baby and performing surgery on a fetus so that you can prevent yourself from making further errors in logic (particularly post hoc, ergo propter hoc.).

Rose said...

MellanKelly,
I must say that I was pretty insulted by your assumptions that I don't know the process of birth and the difference between that and fetal surgery. Also, how you say that I 'attempt' to argue. I am not going to argue with anyone who can't argue politely and pleasantly.

MellanKelly said...

Rose~
It appears as if I've failed in my attempt to convey my thoughts on the differences between a fetus "outside the womb" and a baby which has been birthed (and is therefor legally considered a person in this country). Also, when I made the statement "Your attempt to argue that because fetal surgery has occurred outside of the uterus that fetal personhood is established is a logical fallacy." I was using the term "attempt" in it's literal meaning, which is: to make an effort to do, accomplish, solve, or effect. Do you not agree that you were making an effort to accomplish, solve, or effect that because pro-choicers (including me)believe that personhood occurs upon birth that we must assign personhood (as it were) to a fetus which has been removed from the uterus for the sole purpose of corrective surgery? I was merely attempting to point out that birth and fetal surgery are two entirely different subjects... apparently I did a poor job of conveying my thoughts on the matter.

My goal was not to insult you, the questions that I asked are all valid... I will re-word for further clarification. Rose, do you acknowledge that there exists a difference between birth and fetal surgery? That the goal of birth is to bring forth a healthy baby into this world; and the goal of fetal surgery is a healthy fetus?

Those are the issue's I was trying to get to. I may have been under the impression that I was being polite and perfectly pleasant but it is clear that you mistook my words for a personal attack. I apologize for that. Would that it were possible to convey tone when using words we may not have had this misunderstanding. Please trust me when I state that I enjoy an open dialog with people on this issue; even if those people happen to disagree with me.

MellanKelly said...

It appears as if Rose has been stumped by the propect of there being a difference between birth and corrective fetal surgery. Go figure... but I, for one, am simply SHOCKED by the lack of a compelling retort!